Roberto Perez Rivero, a world-renowned Cuban permaculture and environmental educator, recently toured Australia as part of the Cuba Australia Permaculture Exchange.

Roberto has featured in the award-winning documentary film, The Power of Community, which shows how Cuba adapted to rapidly declining oil supplies. In his early 20s he found himself in the middle of a crisis, which would later become known as ‘The Special Period’.

When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1990, Cuba’s economy went into a nose dive. With imports of oil cut by more than half and food by 80 per cent, the people were desperate.

ECO caught up with Roberto as he ended his Australian tour with a final appearance on the Sunshine Coast at the Future Ready Expo. For five weeks he gave 24 presentations in Queensland, New South Wales, Victoria and South Australia with most venues reportedly packed to capacity.

If the numbers of people who attended his presentations are any indication, Australians are catching on quick to lessons about the consequences of peak oil. Ian Christesen interviewed him exclusively for ECO.

ECO: Tell me something about your background.

Roberto: Ok, yes. My background is as a biologist. I did my degree at the University of Havana and hand-wrote my thesis as there were no computers in Cuba. In fact, there are very few computers at the moment. So when I finally had access to a computer and typed my thesis, the director of the research centre (at the university) asked me if I knew something about permaculture – and I didn’t. So that same day I did a little research in the Ministry of Agriculture and Farming where I found a little book that said more or less what permaculture was. The next day I was there (at the uni) and I talked about permaculture and he (the research director) told me that he was signing an agreement with a group of people from Australia that year to train people in permaculture and, if I wanted, I could be a part of this. I didn’t hesitate. I said yes. I always wanted to do something for nature and for the people. My biology training was addressing issues with nature and I thought that it was a good starting point to find out how permaculture worked by addressing the human problems; by trying to use natural solutions.

ECO: So what year was that, Roberto?

Roberto: It was 1993. The crisis, that was known as ‘The Special Period’, started in 1991. I was in the my third year of university and things got very, very difficult.  We started getting skinnier and skinnier [laughs].  We started using more bicycles, the situation was very difficult.

ECO: There weren’t many dogs and cats around in those days?

Roberto: Yes, especially cats [laughs]. I wanted to do more research and I wanted to do something for the people.  The more I learned about permaculture the more I found that permaculture was speaking to me.  They were using terms that I learnt in my training.  Terms about ecology, natural cycles and food forests. So all of these ideas were literally talking to me.  The things that I learnt in biology were refining my skills in permaculture — they could be applied to improve the life of the people.

ECO: When you were learning about permaculture in Cuba, what sort of government support did you have? Did The Committees for the Defence of the Revolution (CDR) assist?  Was there a budget nationally for permaculture?

Roberto: No.  Although windows of opportunity existed, like research in organic farming, biodynamics and a huge grass-roots movement. We used the ideas that came from Australia and started trying to use those skills to help people in urban areas. That’s why in the beginning we tried to start roof-top gardens.

ECO: So it was primarily in urban environments?

Roberto: Totally. Why?  Because 35 per cent of the Cuban population were considered urban. And, because Havana had 2.2 million people at the time and contained almost 20 per cent of the population with less than 10 per cent of the land area.  So the biggest problems were there.  It’s a big country and we were able to spread the idea from there. So that’s where we started.  In Australia, we received help from The Australian Conservation Foundation’s Green Team and we finally got a project, partly funded by our Government.

In 1994, around August, the research centre that signed the first agreement was closed as part of the re-localisation of the Government.  We had some contact with part of the CDR.  We didn’t always have funding, we were trying to use the existing structure which was very grassroots based. Urban production was given high priority.

ECO: During that time, were you looking to spread permaculture outside of Havana, for example, into other urban centres like Santiago De Cuba?

Roberto: No, not yet.  In 1995 we started the first permaculture course, the first permaculture design certificate.  There was a rearrangement of the Government facilities and we realised that it was the time to find a more permanent partnership.

Since we already had the project, we tried to look at the non-government sector of Cuba.  Around November 1995 we approached the Foundation for Nature and Humanity(Fundacion de la Naturalez y el Hombre), FNH, Havana, which was led by Antonio Núñez Jiménez, who passed away in 1998.  He said that it was very, very important for Cuba, especially during that period.  So we signed an agreement and from that point on FNH became the focal point of permaculture in the country.

ECO: Do you think, Roberto, that looking back, without this special period happening, without that sort of crisis, that permaculture would have been readily accepted?  Was it something that happened only because of that time?

Roberto: I think it would probably follow the same course as has happened in most parts of the world.  In the case of Cuba there was an urgency to produce food, especially in the cities. But we needed to do it in a very creative way.

ECO: If Cuba gained greater access to oil, for example, from Venezuela, do you think that permaculture will be seen as less important?

Roberto: We are in that situation right now.  We can get oil from Venezuela, at about $28 per barrel.  But we are using half the oil that we were using in 1989 and permaculture is stronger than ever in Cuba.  An explanation for that, is that one, we have had almost 20 years (experience with permaculture) and these values are in the minds of the people. Secondly, it’s not only about the petrol or oil, because after that many years, agricultural production and the country’s infrastructure have changed a lot.  For example, it is not only about the petrol you have now. You buy new trucks because the old ones are rusty.  You will need to invest money in the infrastructure because the roads are very small, often used by only oxen and horse cart.  If you consider the costs, permaculture is now very convenient for us.

ECO: Considering the differences in our political structures, can the Cuban example of urban permaculture be used here in Australia?

Roberto: I think that the differences are within how the community is structured.  Our society is deeply community-based and the components of our society, with African, Cantonese, Spanish and a little bit of French influence — Cuba is deeply community-based. People rely on each other and that was something that really helped us to resist the worst of the crisis.  There were no riots. There was hunger, nutritional defects, but there were no droughts.  The response was ordered.  I think one of the biggest differences was that our society was not based on the individual.  So that makes the scenario more contentious. People in your society will need to learn to share.

ECO: Will our individuality and political structures exacerbate the peak oil crisis?

Roberto: Yes, especially because of the political structure, I think that you need to be a little stronger in terms of regulation. Free market solutions, unfortunately in my opinion, don’t seem to work.  Capital trading and those sorts of things are not giving the effect that was expected, they are just making it worse. I think that two things are going to hit in a big way.

One, an increase in the price of food, which is happening right now and there are riots happening around the world, because of the high rate of biofuel production.  When you look at wheat, we see that it doubled in price in the last year.  Biofuel itself is a good thing, but what is happening unfortunately, is that they are using human food crops as ethanol.  This is not the solution, but it directly affects us and the economy.  Food resources around the world are at a very low level.

The second  issue is with climate change.  These strange events — droughts, hurricanes, typhoons — all of these make food production less reliable.  So between the two pressures of biofuels and climate change, the issues around food production are going to be very, very complicated — even before peak oil hits.

ECO: So it comes down to an equity issue.  Where the so-called developed world is taking away productive farm land for our fuel needs.

Roberto: Exactly, it’s absurd and almost criminal.  Rich countries are abusing energy and natural resources, and now they are taking away productive food crops. If you take away the food and you continue doing that to nature, the planet will be sick.

For more information on how corporations are making money while the world goes through a food crisis follow this link.

ECO: Do you think we are heading for a crisis on a global scale?

Roberto: Yes.  Because the world is adopting the American way of life. It is non-negotiable and based upon economic growth.  They are saying that to keep the economy growing, they can afford to allow a global temperature increase of 3 degrees.  That is total madness.  It is very sad because leaders are being influenced by the big companies.

ECO: I know you are a very busy man, so thank you very much Roberto for your time. Thank you for sharing your experience with us.